15 SEPTEMBER 1940SRI AUROBINDO (addressing Purani): Have you mentioned yesterday's points to Anilbaran? What does he say? PURANI : I have told him a few of them as there was not enough time. He is coming round and was especially impressed by the example of the machine. SATYENDRA: All these questions don't arise if one accepts Nirvana as the goal. SRI AUROBINDO (smiling): Yes. SATYENDRA: After all the explanations the mystery remains the same. SRI AUROBINDO: Because Truth is supra-rational, hence it must be mysterious. Buddha in that way was most logical. He was concerned with how things started and got stuck together and how to unstick them and make oneself free. It is the Upanishad's Page -879 standpoint — psychological. Shankara bringing in Maya created the difficulty. SATYENDRA: Isn't there some difference between Buddha's and Shankara's ultimate goals? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. Shankara speaks of the One and the One-in-Many. For Buddha there is no ultimate Self of all; each by his own effort attains separate liberation. Radhakrishnan is now trying to prove that Buddhism believes in the Self. But then illogicality will come in. SATYENDRA: The Tibetan Buddhists say that Nirvana is a half-way house. SRI AUROBINDO: What is beyond? SATYENDRA: That I didn't find in Madame David-Neel's book. SRI AUROBINDO: I met a Muslim scholar in Calcutta who said that Islam also has ascending planes of experience of the Divine SATYENDRA: Maybe a Sufi. SRI AUROBINDO: Bhaskarananda of Poona spoke to me of the same ascending planes. (After some time) Germany is speaking of invasion of England but again says that invasion is not necessary. Their air attacks and submarine blockade will break down the English. (Laughing) They are preparing their people in case the idea of invasion is given up. PURANI: Yes, it must be that. SRI AUROBINDO: In the meantime the R.A.F. is battering the French coast and Germany too. PURANI: I don't know how far an invasion will be successful. SRI AUROBINDO: Now it will be difficult. Hitler had his chance after the fall of France. If he had attacked at once it would have been difficult for England to resist. Hitler really missed the bus. Now England is equally strong in air and navy. Only on land, if they come to grips, it has to be seen what the outcome will be. PURANI : Hitler will have to pay a heavy toll for an invasion. SRI AUROBINDO: He doesn't care about that. What he is afraid of is failure. SATYENDRA: It seems there are eight hundred thousand Italian's in Egypt. SRI AUROBINDO: Eight hundred thousand? SATYENDRA: So the Indian Express says. PURANI: It must be eighty thousand or so. SRI AUROBINDO: Eight thousand! Page -880 PURANI: The other French colonies are now moving towards De Gaulle. SRI AUROBINDO: How? (Laughter) PURANI : That is what somebody writes in the Indian Express. SATYENDRA: Can we believe it? CHAMPAKLAL: That is why he didn't name the Indian Express before! PURANI : No, but they say there is a great tension in Syria. EVENINGSATYENDRA: The Indian Express holds the opinion that the Congress should have accepted the Viceroy's extension of Council and then fought for more. SRI AUROBINDO: That would obviously have been a practical step. A practical politician like Tilak would have done that, accepted half a loaf and fought for the rest. If you won't accept any compromise, then the only alternative would be to prepare for a revolution. SATYENDRA: Nehru is speaking bitterly against the Government policy and saying that Congress can't remain in such inactivity for long. SRI AUROBINDO: He is the Kerensky-type. Any resumption of Satyagraha when England is being threatened with invasion would be serious. Besides, talk of independence is absurd. England won't concede that, especially if after that you declare yourself neutral. When the British Government offered Dominion Status of the Westminster variety — NIRODBARAN: That was as good as independence and, as in the case of Ireland, the British Government could not force India to join the war. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, and Egypt too. Suppose today Hertzog gets a majority and tries to make peace with Hitler; England can't do anything about it. It can only create a split separating Natal and Cape Town. NIRODBARAN: Nolini Sen is asking whether, after the ego-sense has disappeared, any selective action can remain. SRI AUROBINDO: After the disappearance of the ego-sense ego-movements remain and they go on, the habitual movements of the old Prakriti, but one is not bound by it as in the Ignorance. Page -881 SATYENDRA: Two liberated souls won't act in the same way. They will have some selective action. SRI AUROBINDO: In the old Yogas one used to leave the nature-part to act in its own way, thinking that it would fall off with the falling of the body. They would either allow the Cosmic Force to act on their nature so that the Bhavas of Bala, Unmatta, etc. would result, or they would open to the Cosmic Force with a controlling influence. Or it would be the nature of their own being that would go on with its movements to exhaust the Karma. SATYENDRA: Unless after liberation one becomes entirely passive as did Ramakrishna — SRI AUROBINDO: Even Ramakrishna used to pray, "Give me whatever you like but not lust." So he kept a preference there. Among the saints, there is the egoism of the Bhakta. Besides, one may say that the ego-sense has gone, while in fact it may be there. We have seen a number of cases like that where people have claimed that their egos had disappeared. NIRODBARAN-.In the other state, where there is no ego-sense or ego-movement, can't there be selective action still? SATYENDRA: That is the supramental state; before Supermind it is not possible. SRI AUROBINDO: One can have a reflection of it. But that is a very difficult state. There the individual becomes as it were a divine personality. He acts and lives in the Divine Presence. There is no longer any selective action. 16 SEPTEMBER 1940SRI AUROBINDO (smiling): England has destroyed 175 German planes. NIRODBARAN: A very large number, as on August I5th. PURANI: Yes. CHAMPAKLAL: It was also the I5th yesterday. PURANI: Anilbaran was asking, "How does the psychic carry its experiences into the next life?" SRI AUROBINDO: By the various subtle sheaths. After the dissolution of the body these sheaths preserve their experiences and they go to rest in their own planes after which they get dissolved. From these experiences the psychic takes up the essential elements Page -882 that are necessary for the soul's evolution in the next life. It is the psychic that chooses according to its need from its own inner world. It is not that the psychic takes up an entirely new body, mind, etc. or that it is once again the old personality that renews itself. You can see in the case of the Lamas that it is not the same person. Purani gave an instance of how a Dalai Lama, as a boy, gave the correct details about a new hidden tea-bowl about which all others had forgotten. SRI AUROBINDO: I hear these Lamas die young. PURANI: About thirty or forty. SRI AUROBINDO: When one dies young, one comes back to life quickly and the memory remains fresh, as in that Mathura case. Very often one's desires remain unsatisfied and attachments persist, while in old people desires have to a great extent been worked out. PURANI : In Tibet they have developed this occult science wonderfully well. (Purani gave some instances from Madame David-Neel's book) They call in a Lama during somebody's death to help the passage of the soul through the vital world. SRI AUROBINDO: That is the most dangerous passage. It is this world of which people usually speak when they refer to heaven and hell. PURANI: By some process the Tibetans are able to awaken some flame in the heart and after that, even if one is kept immersed in ice, it does not affect one at all. SRI AUROBINDO: That is the Yogagni, I suppose. Here, only Kanai may be able to do that (laughter), but unfortunately we haven't sufficient ice to test it. PURANI : Instead of immersing him in ice, we can put ice on him. EVENING
SRI AUROBINDO: The number of aeroplanes shot down is now 185! PURANI: Yes. It seems two French fleets have passed from west to east through Gibraltar. Perhaps they have been allowed by the British to proceed to Indo-China! Tabouis has said that if the Italian navy could be destroyed, it would give a tremendous blow to the Axis. Page -883 SRI AUROBINDO: That is my view also. If they could do they could separate Africa and occupy the whole of it. PURANI: She has also said that if the French had attacked the Siegfried Line, they could have broken through it. SRI AUROBINDO: That is what I thought. Of course they would have had to sacrifice a lot of men, but it wouldn't have been as invulnerable as they thought. NIRODBARAN: Nolini Sen is still not clear about the selection of the individual in the supramental state. He says there will be individual centres and asks whether the individual, though he will work according to the truth of his being, won't exercise some selection in the process. As each individual will work according to his own truth, there will be some selective process. SRI AUROBINDO: In the supramental state there will be individual centres of cosmic consciousness. The Supermind will work through the cosmic in these centres according to the truth of their being. NIRODBARAN: Is the condition of complete egolessness a supramental state? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, when there is the fullness of the supra mental state. In the intermediate stages there may be various ways of working. NIRODBARAN: Nolini Sen also speaks of individual truth of being. He says that since there will be various individuals, the truth of one will be different from that of another. So in their manifestation a certain selection will come in. SRI AUROBINDO: Selection is the wrong word. It does not apply. The Supermind will work in various ways harmoniously for one purpose, without any limitation. In the lower planes there are various possibilities and the ego bound by its limitations selects out of them. If one looks at the supramental state mentally, giving it a mental and vital character, one is likely to make mistakes. PURANI: One can say it is a specialisation. SRI AUROBINDO: Not even that. It is a fulfilment. 18 SEPTEMBER 1940NIRODBARAN: Gandhi says he won't embarrass the British Government; at the same time he is asking permission to start Page -884 non-violent non-participation in the war. This statement seems queer. SRI AUROBINDO : Yes, it is very funny. He may as well hope for the Viceroy and other Englishmen to walk out of India non-violently. But does he think non-participation will remain non-violent? (Looking at Purani) You have seen the incident at Madras? (There was a police firing and riot in a Congress meeting.) PURANI: Gandhi in his interview may ask for clarification of the whole question again and, if the Government doesn't offer satisfactory reforms, he may ask that the situation be allowed to remain as it is, instead of this extension of councils, etc. SRI AUROBINDO: That is what the Working Committee said, isn't it? PURANI: Yes. NIRODBARAN: It seemed from Gandhi's speech that he almost wished he had stuck to his first statement. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. NIRODBARAN: People make wonderful statements. Nehru said they were not bargaining with the British Government, and now Gandhi again makes another contradictory statement. SRI AUROBINDO: Original ideas! EVENINGPURANI: Anilkumar has been asking me if it is true that Italy has invaded Egypt. SRI AUROBINDO: No, not invaded. Mussolini wants to deliver Egypt. Anilkumar seems to be naive. NIRODBARAN: He doesn't read the papers. PURANI: This man Sumer is saying that though Spain is quiet now, it doesn't mean that Spain has no interest in the New World Order in Europe. When the time comes, Spain will take her share. He has gone to Germany. Perhaps Hitler may persuade or force him to join him. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. Siam is also claiming from the French her bit of territory, not by using any force but only as a concession. However, if France doesn't listen, Siam will renounce the non-aggression pact! PURANI: It must be the Japanese pressure behind. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. Page -885 22 SEPTEMBER 1949PURANI : It seems Bonvain called all the European officials today to discuss the support to De Gaulle.
SRI AUROBINDO: How do you know? It may not have been for that reason. PURANI: What else could it be for? SRI AUROBINDO: We are not told. It seems the representative of De Gaulle found the French people lacking in enthusiasm. PURANI: Yes. They all want safety and self-interest. Even the Governor's statement looks dubious. SRI AUROBINDO: How? PURANI: He has said, "The Vichy Government has said to us, 'Marchez avec les voisins.' According to that advice we have joined De Gaulle." (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: He is not sure of British victory. If the British lose, then he will say to Vichy, "You asked me to be friendly with them." He wants to keep his path clear. De Gaulle is getting very good support, it seems. He wants to raise a French army and take offensive action in France. PURANI: That would be very good. They may have many supporters there too. SATYENDRA: But it won't be an easy job. The number of men has to be very high. NIRODBARAN: They have one million, they say. SRI AUROBINDO: Not only number; the men must have equipment too. De Gaulle is a man who understands the need for equipment; without it he won't do anything. EVENINGSRI AUROBINDO (after reading Bonvain's statement): He can be compared with Mark Twain! (Laughter) Bonvain doesn't believe that England will win. PURANI: It seems the French were asking De Gaulle's representative many questions about their future situation if England got defeated. How can one answer all that now? Besides, one must take a certain amount of risk. SRI AUROBINDO: Quite so. He has replied to them as far as he could, but also said, "If we go on predicting we will lose everything." Page -886 In times of revolution everything is unsettled; how can anything definite be said? Some risk has to be taken. When a course of action is chosen, emergencies have to be met with as they come. SATYENDRA: According to an Italian source, the British have a 230,000 strong army in Egypt. SRI AUROBINDO: How the devil can they give an exact figure? If it is really true, they are almost equal to the Italians. Why then don't they enter into an encounter? SATYENDRA: I think it is either to prove their prowess or prepare their people for any reverses. (Laughter) 19 SEPTEMBER 1940PURANI: It seems the Pétain Government is resisting the German demands and there is a possibility of Pétain resigning. Weygand is also dissatisfied with the ways of the Government. He intends to fly to Morocco, set up an independent government and declare for De Gaulle. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh! PURANI: And there have been clashes in Morocco between De Gaullites and Pétainites. SRI AUROBINDO: Who won? PURANI: That is not said. SRI AUROBINDO: Where did you get all this? PURANI: The Indian Express. (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: You always keep the name out. PURANI: But it must be in the Hindu also. SRI AUROBINDO: Baron says that the Germans are trying to use the French navy and submarines. The sinking of a British ship by a French submarine near Indo-China was done by Germany, he says. And that is why Darlan has ordered those two French destroyers to proceed to Dakar. PURANI: Something like that must be true. Otherwise they would not have escaped the British. If the French take the British side, they will be able to keep Italy out. SATYENDRA: The British are offering no resistance to the Italians in Egypt. They don't seem to have enough forces there. SRI AUROBINDO: No. They say they have transferred several thousand there. But it is not a question of thousands. They have one Page -887 and a half million troops. Why can't they send one hundred thousand? These news correspondents are talking in terms of the old warfare. They say there are stretches of desert to cross. SATYENDRA: What are deserts nowadays to tanks and cars? SRI AUROBINDO: Quite so. PURANI: Hitler seems to be putting pressure on Sumer, trying to displace the French. SRI AUROBINDO: He doesn't require pressure. He has always been pro-Axis. He is a phalangist. PURANI: The British have kept Spain neutral by offering joint control of Gibraltar after the war as well as now. SRI AUROBINDO: If Hitler gets Spain, it will be only one point controlled.
EVENINGThe radio reported that Sri Aurobindo had contributed Rs. 500 to the Madras War Fund as a token of his entire support to the British in their struggle for the cause of freedom. All of us were taken by surprise by this sudden disclosure though, of course, we knew Sri Aurobindo's standpoint, NIRODBARAN: This has come as a counterblast to Gandhi's non-participation. (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: It was not meant to be. For the money was sent some time back, before Gandhi's blast. PURANI: The Italians have penetrated sixty miles into Egypt. The British are not offering any resistance, it seems. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, they say it is still only the desert the Italians are occupying. The whole of Egypt seems to be a desert, except for a small strip along the Nile. (Laughter) The English don't seem to have any forces there. They say they are waiting to come in contact with Italian forces. I don't understand their strategy. They talk of a blockade. But if Cairo and Alexandria are lost, then what effect would a blockade have in spite of their control of the Mediterranean? And I don't see either how they will keep that control. SATYENDRA: They seem to have concentrated all their forces on home defence. SRI AUROBINDO: That must be the fact. SATYENDRA: They think that if they can prevent Germany from occupying England, everything will be all right. Page -888 SRI AUROBINDO: That is not enough. They will have to take back all these lost territories. PURANI: Joad has written an article describing how and why he has turned from a pacifist into a supporter of the war. It is not only a war for defence, he says, but for civilisation. SRI AUROBINDO: That is my standpoint also. They talk of independence, but nobody will remain independent if Hitler wins. PURANI : Dr. André was asked by the pharmacist what he would do if Germany came to India. André was telling me it is a far-off thing yet. SRI AUROBINDO: All the same, it is a pertinent question. 21 SEPTEMBER 1940Today's Hindu published news of Sri Aurobindo's war contribution and quoted his letter to the Madras Governor, in which Sri Aurobindo said that we give our entire support to the British in their struggle. It is not only a war for self-defence and the defence of nations threatened with world domination by Hitler, but also a war for the preservation of civilisation, etc. SRI AUROBINDO (looking at Purani): So? PURANI: It will be published in all the papers. Gandhi will see it. NIRODBARAN: He may find some light in his groping. (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: It is not in his line. They call me a savant. PURANI: Yes. NIRODBARAN: No other savant has contributed anything yet. SATYENDRA: The letter has come out at an opportune time. SRI AUROBINDO: Schomberg can no longer say that the Ashram is a nest of Nazis. SATYENDRA: This is your first public pronouncement since your retirement. SRI AUROBINDO; Yes, though indirect and not given as a pronouncement. SATYENDRA: No, but it was meant to be. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. SATYENDRA: But as regards India, the British are not very lovable. Page -889 SRI AUROBINDO: Lovable? Nobody said they were lovable. They never were. But the question is to love Hitler less. (Laughter) PURANI: Some American correspondent has said the British forces are waiting in Egypt for the Italians to come out like tortoise heads, and then they will chop them off. SRI AUROBINDO: Of course if the British can face them, the Italians will have the disadvantage of having the desert at their back. SATYENDRA: Egypt may declare war now. SRI AUROBINDO: Why? SATYENDRA: The marriage of some prince of theirs is over. (Laughter) PURANI: Oh, the brother of the Hyderabad princess, the legal heir to the Sultan. He would have become the next Sultan if he had been in Turkey. SRI AUROBINDO: No. PURANI: I see; he would have been killed! SRI AUROBINDO: This Egyptian ministry can't raise popular enthusiasm. Nahash Pasha could have.
EVENINGSRI AUROBINDO: So New Caledonia has revolted against the Pétain Government? PURANI: Yes. SATYENDRA: Where is New Caledonia? SRI AUROBINDO: It is a small island near Australia. PURANI: There are some volunteers here who want to join De Gaulle. SRI AUROBINDO: Have they declared themselves? They have to do that first. But do they know that they are to be shot by the PétainGovernment? You have heard the story of the French Consul in Bombay? It seems that somebody painted the Croix de Lorraine on his door at night. Most Frenchmen in Bombay are for De Gaulle, while he is for Pétain. He wanted to report to Pétain against some of these sympathisers, but as he could not do it from Bombay, he went to Kabul and telegraphed from there. The reply came that the sympathisers are to be shot. Now after his return to Bombay, somebody phones him every morning saying, "Ulysse, are you still proving yourself to be a traitor to your country?" (Laughter) PURANI: But the condition in France is none too happy. Page -890 SRI AUROBINDO: No. Hitler is putting pressure on Pétain. The Germans are plundering whatever they can in the non-occupied territories and withholding payment from the banks. They have released French prisoners from Germany and are sending them to Pétain to avoid a shortage of food in Germany. Pétain is being tolerated only for the sake of the colonies. It seems the Germans and Italians have already divided the colonies between themselves. Italy is to take Tunis, Corsica and Morocco, while Germany will get West Africa. After some time Purani spoke about Tagore's new interpretation of an ancient Indian history of the Ramayana period — Itihasher Dhara. Tagore seems to hold that: (l) Rama, Vishwamitra and Janaka are the three forces combined into one that moulded the ancient social life; (2) the fact that Sita was found on cultivated ground indicates that she is a symbol of agriculture; (3) the Kshatriyas were really the ones responsible for the growth of culture and civilisation while the Brahmins were only its preservers. SRI AUROBINDO: All these are old European ideas. He is not even being original. They are as old as the hills. 23 SEPTEMBER 1940SRI AUROBINDO (looking at Purani): Is Hitler waiting for the fog? PURANI: It seems he is more busy in the east settling Rumanian questions in the warm climate. Japan seems to have toned down. It must be due to the Anglo-American alliance regarding the Singapore naval base. SRI AUROBINDO: Obviously. Everything is getting queer. They make war without declaring war, alliance without calling it alliance. SATYENDRA: What has happened to Japan's ultimatum? SRI AUROBINDO: Modified. If this alliance takes place, it will be dangerous for Japan; for Singapore is a strong naval fortress, but at present the British have only a few ships there. An alliance with America will bring in American ships. SATYENDRA: I don't think Hitler has given up the idea of attack. Perhaps he is delaying because of differences among his generals. Page -891 SRI AUROBINDO: He may attack. There have always been differences; in spite of them he has acted on his own. He is trying to establish his air superiority. Hitherto, all his tricks have failed. SATYENDRA: The war will last-along time, it seems. SRI AUROBINDO: At any rate, it won't end now. PURANI: The Egyptian cabinet is meeting to decide what Italy's intention could be. (Laughter) The President has already said that their intention is very clear, so they must act at once. SATYENDRA : Do they think the Italians are coming to embrace them? SRI AUROBINDO: Or perhaps they think that they will blow a kiss from Sidi Barani and withdraw. (Laughter) PURANI: We had a joke at Rajangam's cost. He has received a letter from France. We told him that the Vichy Government was calling him. SRI AUROBINDO: Why from France? PURANI: It's from a medical firm. It was posted before the Armistice. SRI AUROBINDO: I see. But the firm may not exist now - like a star that has gone out although its light still comes to us. (Laughter) EVENINGSATYENDRA: Plenty of people are writing to Doraiswamy about your war donation. They don't understand why you have done it. PURANI: Why? The reason was given very plainly in the statement itself. SRI AUROBINDO: Quite so. SATYENDRA: They don't see how you can support the culture and civilisation of the British and their allies. SRI AUROBINDO: Why not? They ought to see what Hitler is doing everywhere. NIRODBARAN: The difficulty is that they are so biased with an anti-British feeling. SRI AUROBINDO: But I am not biased like them. SATYENDRA: They are political people, not Yogis. SRI AUROBINDO: Then they should have political insight. PURANI: The Egyptian ministers have resigned. It seems the Egyptian Government is pro-Fascist in tendency; that is why it is hesitating. Page -892 SRI AUROBINDO: If it has only a twenty-thousand strong army, of course it won't count for much; but why is the Government pro-Fascist? PURANI: It is Mussolini's work, I suspect. Mussolini has been working and preparing the field there for a long time. He has, perhaps, promised these old Pashas high offices and posts. SRI AUROBINDO: They must be idiots if they believe him even now. PURANI: Yes, and the King also is centralising power in his hands. SRI AUROBINDO: They ought to have abolished the King as was done in Turkey. NIRODBARAN : Is it because of Egypt's neutrality that the British are not attacking the Italians? SRI AUROBINDO: No. Egypt won't dare to prevent them unless they turn hostile. 24 SEPTEMBER 1940The radio said that De Gaulle had gone to Dakar as there had been rumour of a revolt among the people. Sri Aurobindo remarked, "He would not act simply on a rumour. " There was confused and meagre news from Dakar. It was reported that naval fighting was going on between the French and the British. Then Purani described how France had given up the fight in spite of having much material — the usual story about how the French leaders and people had betrayed the cause, etc. SATYENDRA: France would have been in a better position if she had not joined the war. SRI AUROBINDO: How? She would have been attacked one day. Italy was already talking of her colonies. In that case, British help wouldn't have been available. They might have hoped that Hitler would attack Russia first but it is doubtful whether Italy would have waited such a long time. Sri Aurobindo had been styled a Brahmo leader by some American paper in connection with George Nakashima's talk on Nishtha - Margaret Wilson, daughter of the former President of the U.S.A. Page -893 SRI AUROBINDO: So I am called a savant (British radio), a Brahrno leader and an ascetic (Bombay Times) ! Some Egyptian prince had come to India, visited Hyderabad and called it "marvellous". PURANI: If he finds Hyderabad marvellous then one wonders what Egypt may be like. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): Yes, Hyderabad is still half in the Middle Ages! You know Dara's story? One of two brothers from there came for Darshan. After going back the brothers had some quarrel over property and the one who had been here filed a suit and asked our help. He won the case. Then the other brother came for Darshan and after going back he filed another suit against the brother who had won, and he also asked our help. This brother also got a judgement in his favour. I don't understand how it was possible to have opposite judgements, when the judge was the same. EVENINGSRI AUROBINDO: Bhaskar reports on his radio, "It must be remembered that the British have been shelling Dakar." (Smiling) How can we remember when we never heard of it before? There seems to be a mystery around the whole affair. PURANI : Yes, all sorts of conflicting news is coming in. Nobody knows what the truth is. SRI AUROBINDO: It appears from an Englishman bringing news from Rome that Hitler will try to take Gibraltar first, then cross to Morocco, capture Egypt, the Suez canal, the whole of Africa and finally invade England. PURANI: If the French forces side with England in Africa, even now there may be a chance of victory. There are fine French forces in Morocco. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. If Hitler takes Gibraltar, the British can occupy Tangiers as a counterblow. Page -894 25 SEPTEMBER 1940SRI AUROBINDO : The situation about Dakar seems to be a little clearer now. It appears that De Gaulle went there with some free French forces supported by British warships; he sent an ultimatum to the authorities but a fight is still going on as they didn't surrender. But I don't understand why De Gaulle wants to land troops at Dakar. It will be very difficult. He could have landed them in the neighbouring British territory and from there marched to Dakar. PURANI: Yes, and in that case he might have got the support of the people without any fight. SRI AUROBINDO: Perhaps there is no good port for landing. 26 SEPTEMBER 1940The radio announced the cessation of fighting by De Gaulle at Dakar. SRI AUROBINDO: Queer end of the expedition. He shouldn't have undertaken it. NIRODBARAN: He wants to spare French blood. SRI AUROBINDO: But the French at Dakar didn't spare it. (The French fired at De Gaulle's forces when they tried to land.) Neither will the British. NIRODBARAN: De Gaulle still has some sentiment left. SRI AUROBINDO: Gandhian sentiment of non-violence? PURANI: Mrs. M. N. Roy has written an article in support of the war. There she says that people consider Hitler great because he is a vegetarian and because he is a bachelor. "But there may be medical reasons for it," she says. (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: Any vegetarian who murders people will be great then? NIRODBARAN: That is what the Jains seem to have thought. Plenty of Jain kings, while being strict vegetarians, had no hesitation in killing others. SRI AUROBINDO: You know the story of the two Jain brothers during the invasion by Mahmud of Gazni? The brother who was the king was defeated and taken prisoner. The other brother was then made king by Gazni and his brother was handed over to him. He didn't know how to dispose of his brother. At last he found a way. Page - 895 He made a pit below his throne and put his brother there. If he died, it was not his fault. (Laughter) It is a fact of history, not a mere story! 27 SEPTEMBER 1940SATYENDRA: It seems Jinnah carried many files with him to his interview with the Viceroy. SRI AUROBINDO: Files? All the speeches he delivered at the Muslim League meetings? (Laughter) He is making most exacting demands. PURANI: The Secretary of State has already answered Gandhi's conscientious objection to war. SRI AUROBINDO: What did he say? PURANI: He has said that it is Viceroy's conscientious conviction that India's interest is also involved in the war and so nothing should interfere with India's war effort. In the recent military pact Japan has been given the right to be the leader of Asia. SRI AUROBINDO: Asia? How? What of Italy's intentions regarding Syria and Palestine? PURANI: I don't see what the pact means or how Japan is going to profit by it. SRI AUROBINDO: It means nothing. It is like the anti-Comintern pact - implying a "we all hate communism" sort of thing. 28 SEPTEMBER 1940SRI AUROBINDO (after inquiring whether there was any further news regarding the three-Power pact and whether Japan was declared the leader of Asia or the Far East): Not that it makes any difference. SATYENDRA: It is the Far East. SRI AUROBINDO: Italy has an eye on Palestine and Hitler wants Baghdad. How can Japan be allowed the whole of Asia then? NIRODBARAN: Russia left out of the picture? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, perhaps they have seen that she is not in a fighting mood at present. Page - 896 It seems probable that there is some spy in De Gaulle's camp who gave information of the expedition and so the French Government was able to provide the military resistance. NIRODBARAN: But did he expect no resistance? SRI AUROBINDO: He expected that the people would get hold of the town. 29 SEPTEMBER 1940Sri Aurobindo has decided not to give Abhay a copy of his letter in support of the Allies. It is widely known in the Ashram that he has written such a letter and, as a matter of fact none of us thought it was confidential; on the contrary we thought that if people knew about Sri Aurobindo's views they would be enlightened. Sri Aurobindo's objection to publicising it was that it would raise controversies and spoil the work. He didn't want to get into any controversy. When he decided that Abhay shouldn't write anything to Mahadev Desai, Purani pleaded that if Sri Aurobindo didn't want it he wouldn't write anything in Sri Aurobindo's name nor show the letter to anyone. SATYENDRA: It will profit many people to know your points, especially Doraiswamy. He is much disturbed. SRI AUROBINDO: If one does not want to give up his idea nothing will induce him. The facts are there speaking for them- selves. There is the three-Power pact. (After a while, laughing) Some Patel has written a postcard to us saying that he is convinced Hitler is right and we are wrong in supporting Britain. NIRODBARAN: This pact seems to be directed against America. SRI AUROBINDO: Obviously! PURANI: It seems Spain is being persuaded to join the war and allow German troops to pass through Spain to attack Gibraltar. SRI AUROBINDO: Indo-China's example? PURANI: But Franco doesn't seem anxious to join the war. He has to reckon with the blockade too. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. The Monarchists also don't want Fascism in Spain. It is not the Republicans alone but Franco's own men who don't want war. The Phalangists, of course, want it. The Phalangists are Fascists. Page - 897 SATYENDRA: Laski says that whenever the India-question is touched, he doesn't know what the devil happens to Churchill. SRI AUROBINDO: At any rate, he is allowing discussion on equal terms with the half-naked Indian Fakir. SATYENDRA (laughing): Yes, that was Churchill's own expression. 30 SEPTEMBER 1940Yesterday morning, Vithalbhai suddenly disappeared somewhere, returned at night about ten. Somebody gave the news to Sri Aurobindo. SRI AUROBINDO: He was too disorganised and so he came back? Sri Aurobindo asked if any of us had inquired where he had gone and why. Somebody said that perhaps he had been passing through some difficulty. SRI AUROBINDO: He has behaved like Naik. Naik used to have such fits. I suppose it is vital restlessness and dissatisfaction. SATYENDRA: Perhaps. Some dissatisfaction must have been growing within. SRI AUROBINDO: He seems to have many minds. He wrote to us that he didn't want to be in any organisation. By going out he found himself disorganised, probably. Another time he wrote he wanted to see the influence of other Yogis. Purani brought in Roosevelt in some connection. SRI AUROBINDO: It seems this Wilkie is almost certain to be elected. Many Democrats are supporting him. All the same Willkie doesn't appear to be of Roosevelt's standard. PURANI: No! EVENINGPurani narrated a story of how Reynaud was persuaded by his mistress to give up resistance in the North and withdraw to the South, as a result of which the majority of the French Army was crushed in Belgium. Page - 898 SRI AUROBINDO: Where was that story? PURANI: The Sunday Times. NIRODBARAN: The Sunday Times? We didn't see it. SRI AUROBINDO: No! I would like to see it. PURANI: I will get the paper tomorrow.
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